Talk:Bipolar disorder.html

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Bipolar disorder article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (`~~~~`). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

WikiProject Psychology (Rated B-Class)

Psychology portal

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Psychology, which collaborates on Psychology and related subjects on Wikipedia. To participate, help improve this article or visit the project page for details on the project.

B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.
Article Grading: The following comments were left by the quality and importance raters: (edit comments - comment history - watch comments · refresh this page)

WikiProject Medicine (Rated B-Class)
	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Medicine. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions at the doctor's mess.
B	This page has been rated as B-Class on the quality assessment scale
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance assessment scale

This article has an assessment summary page.

· history · watch · refresh To-do list for Bipolar disorder:
Ensure intro section is in accord with WP:LEAD Ensure encyclopedic style throughout as per WP:TONE Fill in details for all citations as per WP:CITE

Cognitive Impairment

I think the balance is off for this section of the article. Maybe the title itself, it implies something along the line of mental retardation while the article says it is more along the line of a simple defect in thinking. Along the line of balance I think the other side of the point, creativity, is too small and also should be something else. The mania side can also account for hyper functionality, which is a term I probably made up to prove my point. Yes it can induce creativity, but I think there is also a link between bipolar and IQ, positively. I myself am not thinking clearly but I hope someone gets something out of this Chitchin13 (talk) 02:12, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

In general bipolar people are inteligent and when (hypo)manic quite creative as well, but there may be proverbial exceptions that prove this rule of thumb. I guess there are at least as much differences as with "normal" human beings, but who is able to give a full proof of this hypothesis? Patio (talk) 14:07, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Cognitive deficit != mental retardation. Deficits like (for example) distractability, difficulty in everyday planning, and memory problems can coexist side by side with high intelligence, creativity and complex problem-solving ability. However, regardless of the many people who combine high IQ and bipolar disorder, and the clear positive correlation between bipolar disorder and creativity, there is no evidence of a positive correlation between IQ and bipolar disorder in the population as a whole, and some evidence of a negative correlation between IQ and bipolar disorder, although the cause-and-effect relationship, if any, is unclear. -- The Anome (talk) 01:14, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Suggested section

A section on the geriatric care of manic depressive patients may also be useful. (Speaking as someone who is on the receiving end of between four and ten phone calls a day to get stream of consciousness monologues from my bi-polar 67-year-old mother.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.187.222 (talk) 21:38, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Good point. I started a subsection on it, based on a fairly recent review study. Added it after the children subsection for now, though it's not really specific to diagnosis (lot of overlap/unclearness with the sectioning, guess it's inevitable to some extent...) EverSince (talk) 12:31, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

To do

I thought I'd just note that there's now a to-do box at the top of this talk page that anyone can add to/act on/cross off. And also if I've removed/changed anything I shouldn't have in my hypomanic go at the article, please reinstate it of course. EverSince (talk) 16:55, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Disorder?

Does 'disorder' have to be in the title? LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 20:08, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that is its proper name. "Bipolar" on its own is merely an adjective. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:18, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Definitions etc.

Caveat: being trained in maths and logic, I can be rather pedantic about details, but feel that in this instance the pedantry is justified.

I must praise the author(s) of the article for correctly (IMO) calling Bipolar disorder a 'psychiatric diagnosis' rather than a single 'disease'.

Anyway, the article uses the phrase 'abnormally elevated mood'. I struggle to find an adequate definition of mood, or what it means for mood to be abnormally elevated in this context (most google searches unearth university and other psychiatric pages that are happy to talk about mood disorders and mood stabilisation, but not what mood actually is.) For example, the Mood (psychology) page does not provide an adequate description in this instance and perhaps a separate Mood (psychiatry) page is justified. The Mood disorder page only indicates that mood/emotional disturbance (whatever mood means) is hypothesised as the underlying cause, and there is rather a lack of clarity. Maybe wikipedia is accurately reflecting a lack of clarity in psychiatric circles from which these terms are drawn, but this ought to be pointed out somewhere.

Any ideas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chalisque (talk • contribs) 13:55, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I think this is very important but also that it does to some extent reflect a lack of clarity about the core constructs and cut-offs, and the blurry partitioning of the everyday and clinical usages. Some other pages touching on it also - Dispositional affect, Affect (psychology), Affective neuroscience and (barely) emotion. I agree it should be covered more...maybe here for now could include a bit more on the questionnaires/assessments used for conceputalizing/screening/diagnosing... EverSince (talk) 17:18, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

In true bipolar, it is pretty unmistakeable. There are problems, though, when you get to so-called milder forms and entities like ultra rapid cycling. Anyway, this will be another major overhaul at some stage. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:41, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Intuitive recognition of stereotypes isn't quite the issue, though, and there is ongoing research/debate as to the psychological dimensions involved in mania, the extent to which it involves true "elevation", mixed states, underlying negativity etc. EverSince (talk) 22:08, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

One of the losses in the past 40 years has been psychological interpretation of manic episodes, however a full-blown episode is something to see and one where...anyway, they are pretty full-on. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:20, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, I wasn't meaning "interpretation" particularly, and I don't think severity is again quite the issue (and you do'nt need to tell me how it can seem clinically); the query seemed to be about underlying construct definition/validity/assessment issues. Thanks EverSince (talk) 01:28, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Psychosis Related to Bipolar Disorder

I noticed while reading the article that while many subjects concerning Bipolar Disorder were very detailed, there seemed to be little to no information concerning the development of psychosis during mood cycling. It might be helpful to give a brief explanation of this manifestation of the disorder with, possibly, a link to the article about psychosis. As well, information regarding the prognosis of those suffering from Bipolar disorder with psychotic features should be discussed in this article as well, along with any other relevant facts. That would be much appreciated.

99.255.70.39 (talk) 15:35, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Good point, psychotic symptoms can be markedly florid in a full-blown manic episode, and I have just read that those who often get psychotic symptoms when manic often also do when in a depressive phase. Will add soon. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:18, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Hgurling's edits

User:Hgurling, a well-intending new user and quite possibly an expert on the subject matter, has made significant edits to both Schizophrenia and Bipolar disorder. His edits to schizophrenia have been discussed at length, but a comparable discussion is lacking for bipolar disorder. Regardless of his actual identity, Hgurling appears to have significant knowledge about the subject, but he may be unfamiliar with policies such as WP:NPOV. Cosmic Latte (talk) 20:54, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Erm, would be happy to look, but...erm.. am a little preoccupied at present. I think I will be stuck for a week or more. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:21, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

I've inserted templates for "bias" and "unreferenced" at the "Life events and experiences" section, since the 180° change of text seem to be confusing to readers (and, of course, that I think it's biased and unreferenced), and I don't feel confident to revert to the old version either, since I'm not sure that the sources used in that version really covers the claims made. I'll take a further look at this if I have the time, otherwise I'm hoping that someone knowledgable will come around. /skagedal^... 09:29, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Childhood

I do remember this article saying something about how having a bad childhood or a life filled with abuse could contribute to becoming bipolar. I've never doubted that, but then it was suddenly removed and now it reads that "conflict contribute very little to the development of bipolar". So what does that mean? I'm just curious as if anyone could tell me the truth... because I have been bipolar since the tender age of twelve and my childhood was not that great. So I wanted to know if abuse really does contribute to developing this disorder or not. A Wikipedia talk page probably isn't the best place for this inquiry, but since it's been removed already... Lady★Galaxy 03:17, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I think the view that stressful life events contribute to the development of a bipolar disorder is pretty much the "mainsteam view". This is what typical textbooks teach (e.g., Barlow & Durand 2005, Abnomal Psychology). (I can not, of course, say anything about what caused your problems; as you imply, this is not the place for that.) These recent changes to the article are what is discussed above under "Hgurling's edits". Specifically, this edit. Hopefully, someone will take a closer look at this. /skagedal^... 10:27, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I have at times made controversial edits myself, but the stressful events view is not only mainstream, it is in the DSM IV. User:smkatz

Roller Coaster Picture

Is the picture of a roller coaster necessary? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.42.217.69 (talk) 15:39, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi I added that, I was trying to find a picture that was an analogy of bipolar disorder, although it may be seen as a bit crude. Remove it if you find it offensive or think that it trivialises the illness or come up another image which is a better analogy (try searching thru wikipedia commons). I think the addition of images in general does add something to the article. What do others think? 194.83.141.120 (talk) 15:45, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I think the roller coaster pic is a bit over the top... Some of the other images on the page seem unnecessary, too, like the brain directly above "Starry Night." 152.3.65.140 (talk) 20:49, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

This following was left on the talk page of 194.83.141.120 by 72.189.98.222 "I feel the picture of the roller coaster is an excellent analogy of the emotions one experiencing the variances of bipolar disorder." 194.83.141.120 (talk) 12:20, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

While that may be true, it seems to me that analogies generally aren't encyclopedic. That image seems to detract from the encyclopedic tone of the page. 152.3.65.140 (talk) 18:48, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I respect your point but I couldn't find anything on Wikipedia which disapproves of images representing analogies. Its important that while encyclopedic the article is also accessible to the general public and I think images like this help. Any others care to comment? 194.83.139.137 (talk) 11:31, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

External Links

I Am Bipolar --Blakeisblake (talk) 00:23, 24 November 2008 (UTC)